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radioThese are reader comments for the article 'The Florida Outpouring With Todd Bentley'
Reader Comments
Posted by Jessica TM in London @ 13:59 on Jun 23 2008
Problems a) focus on healing & shortcuts to Gospel -unlike Acts & Apostolic teaching e.g repentance from all people and a desire for holiness b) here,worship doesn’t lead us to repentance for personal holiness; praise is given to a vague God –where are the special attributes which distinguish our God from false gods? c) God is mighty but this ‘power’ doesn’t reflect or glorify the God of the Bible d) there is barely any evidence of God’s Word: no reading of Scripture/teaching based on the Scriptures [the Apostle Paul gives several specific (detailed) commands to Timothy, his true son in the faith:“ DEVOTE YOURSELF to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and teaching…Watch your life and doctrine closely…because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers”. 1 Tim 4v13 e) this movement’s focus on teachings&testimonies about angelic visitations + worryingly about angels with ‘special’ tasks e.g. healing virtue & finance; (f) references to ‘Jesus’ are few & vague as no specific praise given to Jesus Christ as was preached by Paul; NO reference to His work on the cross&resurrection or that our confidence to enter God’s Holy presence is by the blood of Jesus (Hebrews 10v19-23)! g) NOTHING about the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Jesus spoke of Him " He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak: and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you" John 16:13-15. In contrast, TB gives very unbalanced teaching that isn’t Scripturally based, but gives many accounts of what‘God’ has been doing through his ministry in the miraculous! We hear about the signs, but not about the Heavenly Father Himself! 2Cor11 “Satan transforms himself into an angel of light.Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works”. This is not sent from God!
Problems a) focus on healing & shortcuts to Gospel -unlike Acts & Apostolic teaching e.g repentance from all people and a desire for holiness b) here,worship doesn’t lead us to repentance for personal holiness; praise is given to a vague God –where are the special attributes which distinguish our God from false gods? c) God is mighty but this ‘power’ doesn’t reflect or glorify the God of the Bible d) there is barely any evidence of God’s Word: no reading of Scripture/teaching based on the Scriptures [the Apostle Paul gives several specific (detailed) commands to Timothy, his true son in the faith:“ DEVOTE YOURSELF to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and teaching…Watch your life and doctrine closely…because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers”. 1 Tim 4v13 e) this movement’s focus on teachings&testimonies about angelic visitations + worryingly about angels with ‘special’ tasks e.g. healing virtue & finance; (f) references to ‘Jesus’ are few & vague as no specific praise given to Jesus Christ as was preached by Paul; NO reference to His work on the cross&resurrection or that our confidence to enter God’s Holy presence is by the blood of Jesus (Hebrews 10v19-23)! g) NOTHING about the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Jesus spoke of Him " He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak: and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you" John 16:13-15. In contrast, TB gives very unbalanced teaching that isn’t Scripturally based, but gives many accounts of what‘God’ has been doing through his ministry in the miraculous! We hear about the signs, but not about the Heavenly Father Himself! 2Cor11 “Satan transforms himself into an angel of light.Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works”. This is not sent from God!
Posted by Jessica in London @ 21:16 on Jun 21 2008
(a)Focus on healing - God looks for repentance and holinessn(b) extended worship doesn’t lead to conviction (c)the conduct of ministry (d)no evidence of God’s Word:no Biblical input 1 Tim 4v13: “Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and teaching…Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers”.(e)more teachings on angels (f)almost nothing about Jesus Christ and no specific praise was given to Him/any reference to the cross (‘God’ is mentioned vaguely). TB talks a lot about angels in great detail (no Bible references), his ministry Through studying the Scriptures (OT & NT), I am convinced that the 'power' we are witnessing is NOT the work of God our Father but of the Evil One masquerading as an angel of light.The Bible teaches us that Devil has been defeated by Jesus, but has some power to produce counterfeit signs and miracles. "All Scripture is God-breathed ...I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage - with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine...They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." 2 Timothy 3:16- 4:4.
“But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those “super-apostles”.
(a)Focus on healing - God looks for repentance and holinessn(b) extended worship doesn’t lead to conviction (c)the conduct of ministry (d)no evidence of God’s Word:no Biblical input 1 Tim 4v13: “Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and teaching…Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers”.(e)more teachings on angels (f)almost nothing about Jesus Christ and no specific praise was given to Him/any reference to the cross (‘God’ is mentioned vaguely). TB talks a lot about angels in great detail (no Bible references), his ministry Through studying the Scriptures (OT & NT), I am convinced that the 'power' we are witnessing is NOT the work of God our Father but of the Evil One masquerading as an angel of light.The Bible teaches us that Devil has been defeated by Jesus, but has some power to produce counterfeit signs and miracles. "All Scripture is God-breathed ...I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage - with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine...They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." 2 Timothy 3:16- 4:4.
“But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those “super-apostles”.
Posted by Sonia in London @ 13:06 on Jun 20 2008
So many people have already said eloquently much of what I have to say- Hernan Blas, Dave Higson, renee, shirl et al. Additionally, there has been no medical verification of healings and resurrections. Mr Bentley often reads out letters and emails from people purporting to have been cured with the caveat that these accounts have yet to be verified. But why in that case even bother reading the unverified testimonies out? Hype is everything factual proof obviously nothing. I go to a small church in London where our leaders have gone en mass to Florida to 'bring back the anointing'. Our church though CofE has increasingly become extremely charismatic. Well before I became a believer, I dabbled in Kundalini yoga & have seen involutary laughing, jerking, speaking in tongues well imagine my surprise when an 'imparting' evening was held in our Church by a CofE vicar recently returned from Florida who had actually been 'bammed' by Bentley personally. I saw this man writhing on the floor, unable to stand, etc One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is self control on that evening this was sorely lacking. If you follow this link http://www.newchristian.org.uk/kundalini.html you will see the freakily similarities between Kundalini serpent power and what happens aroound Bentley and his ilk. We do have to discern to avoid being led to hell. Any way, if this is a true move of God it will last and will bear much fruit but I fear that this will not happen instead, followers will be on a continuous look out for the new 'move of God' ad infinitum. Finally I wonder if the whole Florida show would be attracting so many followers if they were preaching repentance.
So many people have already said eloquently much of what I have to say- Hernan Blas, Dave Higson, renee, shirl et al. Additionally, there has been no medical verification of healings and resurrections. Mr Bentley often reads out letters and emails from people purporting to have been cured with the caveat that these accounts have yet to be verified. But why in that case even bother reading the unverified testimonies out? Hype is everything factual proof obviously nothing. I go to a small church in London where our leaders have gone en mass to Florida to 'bring back the anointing'. Our church though CofE has increasingly become extremely charismatic. Well before I became a believer, I dabbled in Kundalini yoga & have seen involutary laughing, jerking, speaking in tongues well imagine my surprise when an 'imparting' evening was held in our Church by a CofE vicar recently returned from Florida who had actually been 'bammed' by Bentley personally. I saw this man writhing on the floor, unable to stand, etc One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is self control on that evening this was sorely lacking. If you follow this link http://www.newchristian.org.uk/kundalini.html you will see the freakily similarities between Kundalini serpent power and what happens aroound Bentley and his ilk. We do have to discern to avoid being led to hell. Any way, if this is a true move of God it will last and will bear much fruit but I fear that this will not happen instead, followers will be on a continuous look out for the new 'move of God' ad infinitum. Finally I wonder if the whole Florida show would be attracting so many followers if they were preaching repentance.
Posted by linda in Stoke-on-Trent @ 17:18 on Jun 19 2008
to all who criticise this out pouring l say take a look at the people that God has used in the past none were perfect all made mistakes. Read Gods Generals by Roberts Leardon its not those with perfect theoligy that God uses but those who are hungry for Him and are willing to give Him there all no matter what the cost to themselves even Jesus was criticised by the church of his day so Todd is in good company. what I have observed in our church is that our faith level is rising hope and expectation has come alive and we have already seen one salvation as a direct result of this outpouring. people are keen to receive healing where previously they would put up with their sicknesses in short our heads are being lifted up to God seeking His face and giving Him the Glory.Also our worship has lifted up to another level this can't be anything other than our God who has always had to offended the religious in order to bring the kingdom to earth.
to all who criticise this out pouring l say take a look at the people that God has used in the past none were perfect all made mistakes. Read Gods Generals by Roberts Leardon its not those with perfect theoligy that God uses but those who are hungry for Him and are willing to give Him there all no matter what the cost to themselves even Jesus was criticised by the church of his day so Todd is in good company. what I have observed in our church is that our faith level is rising hope and expectation has come alive and we have already seen one salvation as a direct result of this outpouring. people are keen to receive healing where previously they would put up with their sicknesses in short our heads are being lifted up to God seeking His face and giving Him the Glory.Also our worship has lifted up to another level this can't be anything other than our God who has always had to offended the religious in order to bring the kingdom to earth.
Posted by Ben.m in Essex @ 11:02 on Jun 19 2008
God is great,he will do what he wants,when he whants,how he wants.
Even Jesus got a few raised eyebrows,a few death threats, was accused of being the devil..etc,and that was mostly from the people who thought they knew God.
His love is new every morning,and when he turns up in a way that im not used to, its mind blowing.
Picture this... he grabs some mud spat on it and puts on a mans eyes..I mean that was not the done thing,what scripture was that in at the time.
Yes have decernment,be wise,but allow God the space and time to be this awrsome and mighty God where he wants,how he wants.
Love what he's doing through Todd Bentley and the team. Bamm!!!
God is great,he will do what he wants,when he whants,how he wants.
Even Jesus got a few raised eyebrows,a few death threats, was accused of being the devil..etc,and that was mostly from the people who thought they knew God.
His love is new every morning,and when he turns up in a way that im not used to, its mind blowing.
Picture this... he grabs some mud spat on it and puts on a mans eyes..I mean that was not the done thing,what scripture was that in at the time.
Yes have decernment,be wise,but allow God the space and time to be this awrsome and mighty God where he wants,how he wants.
Love what he's doing through Todd Bentley and the team. Bamm!!!
Posted by John K in Accra, Ghana @ 16:17 on Jun 18 2008
Paul, like his Lord, is often shocked about the depth of unbelief in people. During one of his preaches he said this ' why should you think it incredible that God raises the dead!' (Acts 26:8) He was addressing a mind set that had built an image of God (which is nothing more than a personal idol) in their minds and hearts which is so far from that of the true God that when confronted with the works of the true God they just simply have no room to take it in. Surely their God does not do that! Yes but we are not talking about your god which you have made up BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE GOD WHO WAS REVEALED AS JESUS CHRIST... who healed the sick, and raised the dead and did many other miracles and did not hide the patent on these like modern drug companies do but said ....' anyone who believes in me can do these things and even greater things' We are only seeing the beginning of what the church ought to be like. It will get better and more outrageous ...... why should people think it incredible that God heals the sick and raises the dead today? If we knew only a little bit of the true God we would stop doubting and believe and rejoice that he has truly come to his people!
Paul, like his Lord, is often shocked about the depth of unbelief in people. During one of his preaches he said this ' why should you think it incredible that God raises the dead!' (Acts 26:8) He was addressing a mind set that had built an image of God (which is nothing more than a personal idol) in their minds and hearts which is so far from that of the true God that when confronted with the works of the true God they just simply have no room to take it in. Surely their God does not do that! Yes but we are not talking about your god which you have made up BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE GOD WHO WAS REVEALED AS JESUS CHRIST... who healed the sick, and raised the dead and did many other miracles and did not hide the patent on these like modern drug companies do but said ....' anyone who believes in me can do these things and even greater things' We are only seeing the beginning of what the church ought to be like. It will get better and more outrageous ...... why should people think it incredible that God heals the sick and raises the dead today? If we knew only a little bit of the true God we would stop doubting and believe and rejoice that he has truly come to his people!
Posted by Mark Gordon in Bangor, Northern ireland @ 13:25 on Jun 18 2008
Hi
I have also watched Todd on TV and have to say I am somewhat disturbed at his antics. There is a lot of disorder and confusion in his ministry which most certainly is not God orientated. Also why do 'revivals' take place in airports - they should be called 'arrivals' as many foolish Christians travel across the world to chase an experience which is neither biblical or wholesome. Yes I too want to see God move but not in such a designed way that seems to bring his holy name into disrepute. Anyway if I am wrong I hope God will send the angel 'Emma' to me just like he did to Todd to guide me. (Nothing like usurping the work of the Holy Spirit eh?)
Hi
I have also watched Todd on TV and have to say I am somewhat disturbed at his antics. There is a lot of disorder and confusion in his ministry which most certainly is not God orientated. Also why do 'revivals' take place in airports - they should be called 'arrivals' as many foolish Christians travel across the world to chase an experience which is neither biblical or wholesome. Yes I too want to see God move but not in such a designed way that seems to bring his holy name into disrepute. Anyway if I am wrong I hope God will send the angel 'Emma' to me just like he did to Todd to guide me. (Nothing like usurping the work of the Holy Spirit eh?)
Posted by stevie in scotland @ 12:19 on Jun 18 2008
Hi There,
I can understand folk not wanting to judge Todd and the 'Extreme Prophetics'.
But, is magically appearing gold dust, gold fillings, angel feathers and sparkly gems really christian?
Isn't all of this- including the healings- very new agey?
Lots of witches are into miraculous healing too- give it a google and see.
However, the magically appearing gold dust, gold fillings, angel feathers and sparkly gems- are they really christian?
Hi There,
I can understand folk not wanting to judge Todd and the 'Extreme Prophetics'.
But, is magically appearing gold dust, gold fillings, angel feathers and sparkly gems really christian?
Isn't all of this- including the healings- very new agey?
Lots of witches are into miraculous healing too- give it a google and see.
However, the magically appearing gold dust, gold fillings, angel feathers and sparkly gems- are they really christian?
Posted by Fiona in Scotland @ 11:58 on Jun 18 2008
Hi all
I just watched a clip of a young man being prayed for by Bentley to bring the blessing back to Scotland. Bentley then went on to shout at the camera - telling us in Scotland to catch the fire.
No thanks.
This man is dangerous. I believe the "transference" of the revival is unscriptural and may well be transferring unclean spirits. We don't want any sensationalism here in Scotland. Our history has taught us to be very guarded against blasphemous and wicked uprisings.
We fear no one and no thing. We want true revival - the kind that speaks of repentance and renewal...not sensationalism, false teaching and spiritual embarrassment.
Many of the TV transmissions are having a detrimental effect on those who have yet to hear and believe - those that God has chosen and is calling. My prayer is that this nonsense ceases, and the real spirits behind this "outpouring" are exposed.
In these times, it is so important to know the Word. Theology is also vital - if we have that wrong we can very easily be led astray and into error.
Matthew 7
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Fiona
Hi all
I just watched a clip of a young man being prayed for by Bentley to bring the blessing back to Scotland. Bentley then went on to shout at the camera - telling us in Scotland to catch the fire.
No thanks.
This man is dangerous. I believe the "transference" of the revival is unscriptural and may well be transferring unclean spirits. We don't want any sensationalism here in Scotland. Our history has taught us to be very guarded against blasphemous and wicked uprisings.
We fear no one and no thing. We want true revival - the kind that speaks of repentance and renewal...not sensationalism, false teaching and spiritual embarrassment.
Many of the TV transmissions are having a detrimental effect on those who have yet to hear and believe - those that God has chosen and is calling. My prayer is that this nonsense ceases, and the real spirits behind this "outpouring" are exposed.
In these times, it is so important to know the Word. Theology is also vital - if we have that wrong we can very easily be led astray and into error.
Matthew 7
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Fiona
Reply by Jessica TM @ 04:10 on Jul 8 2008
Dear Fiona, It has been a while since I have returned to this comments page. Originally I felt I just had to write in response to Chris Cole's explanatory but erroneous statement on why we should joyfully welcome the "Florida Outpouring. I was appalled. It is so important to put on the full armour of God - a vital piece of 'equipment' holding everything together is the truth of God's Word. It is pitiful that people in their ignorance of the truth run after signs, and in this case false signs, because they want the power without knowing Jesus as the Way, the Truth and the Life. I just wished to say I was encouraged by what you shared with us. There are many who wish to bury their head in the sand, and many who embrace this 'move' get immediately defensive and upset with Christians who challenge the foundation of this 'move' and are very reluctant to enter into any or much scriptural discussion and instead attack them (often demonstrating a poor knowledge or incorrect use/understanding of Scripture). We really need to stand firm as Pau commanded us to in Ephesians 6, and when we have done everything, to stand, in spite of the attacks that continue to come upon believers who want to follow Jesus in the truth of God's Word. Let's all continue in prayer and not be intimidated by what appears to be a 'majority' because "If God is for us, who can be against us"!
Kind regards in Christ,
Jessica (from London)
Dear Fiona, It has been a while since I have returned to this comments page. Originally I felt I just had to write in response to Chris Cole's explanatory but erroneous statement on why we should joyfully welcome the "Florida Outpouring. I was appalled. It is so important to put on the full armour of God - a vital piece of 'equipment' holding everything together is the truth of God's Word. It is pitiful that people in their ignorance of the truth run after signs, and in this case false signs, because they want the power without knowing Jesus as the Way, the Truth and the Life. I just wished to say I was encouraged by what you shared with us. There are many who wish to bury their head in the sand, and many who embrace this 'move' get immediately defensive and upset with Christians who challenge the foundation of this 'move' and are very reluctant to enter into any or much scriptural discussion and instead attack them (often demonstrating a poor knowledge or incorrect use/understanding of Scripture). We really need to stand firm as Pau commanded us to in Ephesians 6, and when we have done everything, to stand, in spite of the attacks that continue to come upon believers who want to follow Jesus in the truth of God's Word. Let's all continue in prayer and not be intimidated by what appears to be a 'majority' because "If God is for us, who can be against us"!
Kind regards in Christ,
Jessica (from London)
The opinions expressed in the Reader Comments are not necessarily those held by Cross Rhythms.
Hi Guys,
Just to say our church leaders and a few others have been out to the Florida meetings and it is very much a move of God. We are now holding Outpouring/Healing meetings on Monday nights and seeing amazing healings taking place, salvations and the presence of God is just amazing, We started out meeting in our usual church building and have had to move as there were too many people coming! We now meet in the largest church building in the city and 100's are coming each time. Several of the churches in Southampton have come together and are supporting these meetings, we are pressing in to all that God wants to give us!
I'd encourage any of you who are skeptical about this to get to a meeting and see for yourselves as when you are in the presence of God and seeing him move you can't argue with it!
Meetings in Southampton - Mondays 7.30pm at Central Hall.