"Britain's most famous vicar" RICHARD COLES quizzed about his beliefs and lifestyle

Richard: Yeah. I think we have to be provisional, don't we, as humans, imperfect creatures that we are, if we try to reach after stuff that's properly God's.

Tony: I like that. I've got my theology but it's provisional until we get to head office.

Richard: Have we got L-plates!

George: A couple of weeks ago when the A-Level results came out you - this is going to sound terribly self-indulgent because it is referring to a Facebook status you posted. . .when the A-Level results were posted you pretty much gave us a CV of quote-unquote "failures" of yours.

Richard: Yes, most spectacular academic failures.

George: I was going to ask you about your life journey, dealing with disappointment and rising above the supposed failures and whether that has made you a better person and made you the person that you are now.

Richard: If my CV landed on my desk I'd have a look at it and think "this guy's a complete fantasist - reject"; because I have got to things in a sort-of round the houses sort of way. I went to a public school where I was a choirboy and grew up expecting to inherit what people like that inherit. Of course it didn't work out that way because I kind of bailed out in my teens and went to an FE college. Rubbish O-Levels, rubbish A-Levels, and then I escaped to London and found a new life of a type there and it wasn't until I was 30 that I sort of got my act together.

I went to university at 30, did a theology degree. I worked hard, was motivated and got a first; and I was lucky to do that. And the other thing that occurs to me is that apart from my education and schooling, which my parents very generously and sacrificially paid for, everything I got was free. I've had one of the best educations that anyone in the world could possibly have and I never paid a penny for it so, you know, I was very lucky to be in that cohort. My niece has just done very well in her A-Levels, which is great, and she is going off to university to do Russian, which is great, but she is going to come out with £60,000 worth of debt, which is not so great.

My career didn't go according to any sort of plan, or no discernible plan as far as I was concerned and I am reasonably content with how it has turned out so far.

Tony: Following on from that, do you think a theological degree is needed to carry out the functions of your standard vicar?

Richard: That's a good question. One of the jobs of a priest/minister is to be a reliable person to whom you can turn for a fruitful/authentic discussion/exploration of the Christian faith. Is a theological degree essential for that? I know it is essential for me, but when I think about it there are lots of people who I have had very rich theological explorations with who have never passed through the doors of a university. You have to have one now, don't you, as an Anglican clergy? I'm trying to think of an Anglican clergyman or clergy woman who doesn't have a degree and I can't think of one.

Tony: I'm not a member of the Communion myself but it would seem to be a pre-requisite to be; and I don't know whether that's written into the structure of the Church of England; but as somebody who has no education or qualifications at all, and never have - I was expelled from school with no qualifications at all and eventually became a journalist and one of my functions is that I teach journalism; and I've taught several people down the years, with degrees in journalism and discovered that they can't write. Is there something profoundly flawed with the educational system which gives people degrees and things that they are completely unsuited for?

Richard: It's an interesting question. Sometimes you might think if you look at some of the newer universities and some of the degree courses they offer; it would be easy to sort of be a little bit snooty about it, perhaps and think that's a very long way from politics, economics and philosophy at Oxbridge. But then Northampton University - I got an honorary doctorate from them this year and one of the things that most impressed me about being there and meeting the graduates was just how many of them were the first in their families to ever go to university. One of the reasons that it was able to do that was because it offered degrees which offered them a practical way into the world of work.

I thought that was a fantastic thing. The idea that a degree should conform to a traditional kind of qualification to enter the professional upper/middle classes is I think a rather narrow understanding of what a university education could be.