"Britain's most famous vicar" RICHARD COLES quizzed about his beliefs and lifestyle

Gavin: They often say in the Church of England that those who want to be a bishop won't be; and those who don't want to be a bishop have already had the letter from Downing Street!

Richard: I couldn't possibly comment!

George: Could you give us a few examples of where you've seen that patient endurance at work?

Richard: I've been very struck, particularly by the witness of Rowan Williams, who I think is a theologian of great subtlety, originality and creativity. To see the way he has, very patiently and at enormous personal cost, managed to sustain a conversation between parties as opposed as the various parties to this debate are, has been quite remarkable and I applaud him for it. That has modelled to the Church.

It would be great, I think, if this question could be answered very simply, and everyone be happy, that would be great. But not all questions are like that and this is one of them. And I think it then behoves us to work as carefully and attentively and as patiently and as charitably as we can to keep the show on the road.

I think because people had such high expectations of Rowan Williams in particular, that it is easy to feel disappointed when somebody in whom you had high expectations doesn't do what you wanted them to do. But the fact that we are still having a conversation seems to me to be a remarkable achievement. It's an odd kind of compliment to pay to his time at Canterbury, but it could have been an awful lot worse and I think his real achievements won't really become plain until years have passed.

Tony: You couldn't imagine this conversation continuing, say, in Africa?

Richard: Well, no. And Rowan Williams finds himself in that position as Archbishop of Canterbury as the primary figure in the Anglican Communion and having to be courteous, hospitable and entertain arguments of extraordinary depth and range.

I spent some time in Uganda as Chaplain to the University of Kampala and it was interesting to discover just how far church opinion there was from the core of church opinion that I represented. And that concentrates your mind when you realise, when you are obliged to really think carefully about people who are just deeply implacably opposed to things that you want to take for granted. It's a very interesting and difficult place to be.

The Communards

Tony: Let me personalise it for a second. I'm an evangelical; a man who sincerely believes that homosexual practice is a sin - no smaller or greater a sin than gossip or a hundred other activities identified as sin - how possible is it for you to respond to somebody like me with any level of tolerance, kindness or anything else?

Richard: How else am I going to do it? We are called to be one in Christ aren't we? I mean, that's an easy thing to say, perhaps it even sounds a bit glib; but it's not. It involves real sacrifice. You and I may think very differently about this issue, but I acknowledge in you brotherhood. We share that in Christ through baptism and through our faithfulness to the Gospel and so that's the first thing I would want to say.

But also it seems to me that the Gospel calls us to really deal with that, doesn't it, and to recognise that in Christ - to paraphrase the letter to the Ephesians - that which divides us is broken down through the sacrifice he made on the cross and we find our brotherhood, our sisterhood, all that kind of stuff - our unity in Christ - not through the expression of a vague hope but through that which was achieved for us on the cross: transformation, a new life. It calls us to make that kind of sacrifice too so that we can achieve and realise in our lives the transformation and new life offered in Christ. I'm up for that. Bring it on.

And also, of course, I might be wrong. I might be wrong. You might be wrong. I'm sure we're all wrong in the wisdom of God. . .

Tony: In the wisdom of God. . . knowing what little I know of the Scripture and its ability to communicate profound truths through paradox and the mystery of God; I suspect there will be many things that all of us are wrong about. . .