Britain's top worship leader MATT REDMAN talked to Tony Cummings about his new album, his children and being a face-to-the-ground worshipper.

This is a time for breathing you in and breathing out your praise."

The point being that all the most wholesome worship is an overflow of the heart - an all-consuming response to the all-deserving revelation of God. In the same way that revelation leads us to a response, seeing leads to singing. As the song says, "We cannot sing of things we have not seen." The chorus sums up the theme of the whole song: "Worship starts with seeing you."

Tony: How has being a dad with two small children changed your perspective on things?

Matt: My little girl, Maisey, and my little boy, Noah, are amazing children - lots of joy and energy every day! More than anything they make me want to get this mixture of marriage, family and ministry right. Every week we walk it out - trying to discern how much God has called us to travel, and how much I should be away, or how often we should journey away together as a family on trips and conferences. Thankfully some of those questions have been answered for us for the immediate future as we're planting a church in September of this year! We've been with the CCK church family for the last two years and that has been a wonderful season of refreshing, and re-aligning - plus we've made some great relationships there. But all the while we've had a rising feeling that God would be calling us out to church-plant - actually in the Church of England, which I grew up in. So, to cut a long story short, we have an ordained friend of ours moving down from London with his family later this year and a small team of us will be planting an Anglican church in mid-Sussex. Not all of the details are finalised yet, but we're really excited to see what God is going to do. It's great to have a blank canvas to re-imagine what our gathered worship and our reaching-out will look like.

Tony: Shouldn't this greater emphasis on intimacy be affecting our culture by now?

Matt: I can best answer this by describing the journey of discovery much of the wider Church seems to have been on with gathered worship. The way I see it there are distinct stages. Stage one - we realised that worship is not just singing songs for the sake of being uplifted, but that we could sing to God and bring him honour and pleasure through our congregational offerings. Stage two - we started to get more of a handle on the fact that as well as being heard by God, a divine exchange occurs in worship and we can actually encounter him. It's so common today to walk into a church singing their hearts out and see an expectancy to meet with God as they do so. That's very encouraging. But then comes stage three - a realisation of who it is we are actually encountering, that we must not equate his closeness with tameness or smallness. The God we draw near to in worship, and who draws near to us, is higher than the highest of heights - far greater than we could ever fathom or imagine. This is the stage I see many of us in right now - a re-awakening to the heights and depths of the glory of God. So in answer to your question, it's hard for someone like me to say whether all this talk of intimacy has affected our culture adequately. But all I do know is that a people who walk out their worship with a big view of our infinite yet intimate God will be an unstoppable force!

Tony: Have you seen The Passion Of The Christ movie? What did you think of it?

Matt: Yes, I saw it a few weeks back. It's an impacting piece of cinema. One thing it did for me was challenge me as a songwriter. I sat there thinking, "I wish I could convey something more of the power and magnitude of the cross - and all that happened at that place - in my songs. Gibson uses his creativity (and about $30 million!) to visually convey something of the wonder and depth of the cross - could I manage somehow to paint a fuller and more powerful picture than I have so far through lyrics and sounds?" That is a huge challenge.

Tony: Back in 2002 you were expressing a certain disquiet about the way praise and worship is being marketed in America. Isn't the situation even more commercialised than ever?

Matt: The first thing to say is I hope I didn't pick on America! In truth, some of the deepest and most inspiring worship music I'm hearing is coming out of the USA - for example the Sixsteps record label with the David Crowder Band, Charlie Hall and Chris Tomlin. But the fact is we all need to examine our hearts every step of the way. When things get exciting, then it's time to ruthlessly check our hearts to check we're still on track. As Wimber reminded us. "The real test in these days will not be in the writing and producing of new and great music. The real test will be in the godliness of those who deliver it." There's a big and exciting worship movement in the USA, and a Christian record industry playing a part in that. It could be so easy I guess to point the finger at things we see being done that aren't quite the way we'd do them, or we're unsure of the reasons behind them. But God's been teaching me to first point the finger at myself and take a good hard look at all my heart motives. Once I start doing that I don't have time left to be judging what other people are doing!

Tony: Are there any other areas of music you'd still like to explore?

Matt: I try to consciously keep moving on musically - a new chord here or there - or a different sound, etc. But I'm anticipating a smooth, evolving approach rather than a radical departure into hip-hop or something!

Tony: Shouldn't this greater emphasis on intimacy be affecting our culture by now?

Matt: I can best answer this by describing the journey of discovery much of the wider Church seems to have been on with gathered worship. The way I see it there are distinct stages. Stage one - we realised that worship is not just singing songs for the sake of being uplifted, but that we could sing to God and bring him honour and pleasure through our congregational offerings. Stage two - we started to get more of a handle on the fact that as well as being heard by God, a divine exchange occurs in worship and we can actually encounter him. It's so common today to walk into a church singing their hearts out and see an expectancy to meet with God as they do so. That's very encouraging. But then comes stage three - a realisation of who it is we are actually encountering, that we must not equate his closeness with tameness or smallness. The God we draw near to in worship, and who draws near to us, is higher than the highest of heights - far greater than we could ever fathom or imagine. This is the stage I see many of us in right now - a re-awakening to the heights and depths of the glory of God. So in answer to your question, it's hard for someone like me to say whether all this talk of intimacy has affected our culture adequately. But all I do know is that a people who walk out their worship with a big view of our infinite yet intimate God will be an unstoppable force!