London hip-hop crew 29TH CHAPTER are going all out to take the Jesus message into schools. Tony Cummings talked to the righteous rappers.

TC: Now, tell me about this album of yours because this is really intriguing. It's not every day that you read about a band and their new album in Billboard magazine. If you don't know what Billboard is it's the most prestigious music trade publication in the world. If somebody like Michael Jackson is making a new album or Madonna is about to record probably the very first place you're ever going to read about that is going to be in the pages of Billboard magazine. Some months ago I was flicking through the pages of Billboard and sure enough there's a big article on this band who, at that time, hadn't even had their album released - 29th Chapter. It must have been a surprise to these guys to get that article in and obviously Billboard felt that these guys are important enough to be writing about, this must be an important project - and sure enough 'History' was released and came through to me and Cross Rhythms radio have been playing some tracks. Tell me a bit about the album.

NAVIGATOR: " 'History' started as an EP. We were trying to just put down about five tracks or so and we'd written just so much material we were struggling with what to put down and what to take out. 'History' is kind of the beginning of, we hope, many albums to come. The whole idea of 'History' is just like the title track of the album, we just have a heart that God is gonna make us history makers, just like the disciples in the book of Acts. Those men turned the world upside down and that's what our heart is, our passion is that we want to leave a legacy where they look back in history books and see that the 29th Chapter brought the Gospel to their nation and beyond, to their generation and they changed a generation. So the tracks on there, each one is individual and they all talk about different aspects of who we are as a crew and just things that we believe. There's tracks on there to challenge Christians, there's tracks on there that just preach the Gospel - like 'Representative' is just a clear description of who we see the Lord Jesus as and 'Double Negative' challenges the Christians who are living a double life. I believe there's something for everyone there, but it's just a beginning, something awesome and astronomical - large sized proportions!"

MR PRINCE: "One of the other things we wanted to do with 'History' is, every band has to record a demo of some kind and in some senses 'History' for us was what we kind of consider as our demo. At the time of recording we were really interested in seeing if we could attain some kind of support from the Christian record industry, some kind of deal or something! We kind of put it together with that in mind. With it being our first major recording we were also just trying to see what we could do creatively, musically, vocally and stuff. It served that purpose - but we're still looking for a record deal."

TC: But of course the Church kind of lags behind a bit in hip-hop culture. You know it can understand some contemporary forms - usually it begins to understand a contemporary form at the moment that the world decides a particular form isn't contemporary any more. So, in other words it just kind of picks up and strums guitars just as the world drops them. By and large the Church has not picked up on hip-hop as a particularly valid means of expression for worship or for evangelism or for much else at the moment, has it?

DANGEROUS: "Yeah, I think that generally you'll find that hip-hop is not greatly accepted by an older generation, but I think that something that God has really favoured us in is the fact that, although hip-hop is the way that we live and it's our style of music really at the forefront of our music is the message which is the Gospel, which transcends any form of music and is in itself the most important message that we bring. So we find that wherever we go actually people are very positive about what we're doing because they realise that beyond the culture that they might not understand and beyond maybe the baggy jeans and the hats, in fact there are four young men that just want to preach the Gospel of Jesus. So I think really that what transcends from the 29th Chapter is that although we really love the music and it's really part of our lives, what we love more is Jesus and his Gospel message. I think that really is what transcends through the music, and we find that actually people accept things a lot more than generally you think that they would accept it. Yes, we've had times where people just don't see what we're trying to do and just hear in their ears kind of noise, but at the end of the day the Gospel will find a way to be relevant to the street and to be relevant to the culture for young people, so really we believe that's what God has blessed us in."

TC: Now you played a pretty big gig recently, you ministered at Festival: Manchester didn't you? Somebody tell me about that.

MR PRINCE: "Festival: Manchester was all good. We got to hook up with the guys from the Message and also the guys from the Tribe to be a part of that thing right there. It was a phenomenal experience standing on a stage in front of some 25,000 people. Just to share the Gospel, to be a part of that whole thing. We have recently recorded a collaboration track on the Tribe's current album, it's the last track called 'As One'. Tim called us up, we'd been speaking to him for a while and he was just saying that they wanted to get a bit of 29 up on their album. They had the concept for this track 'As One' which is all about unity in the music industry, unity within Christianity, within denominations and stuff and we went down and recorded that thing. It's been incredible because it's been an amazing, unifying thing working with the guys from the Tribe and the Message and with Alliance a bit and stuff. Just to say, 'Look, as one we're stronger than if we worked apart.' That was phenomenal. So obviously when Festival: Manchester was coming together the guys from the Tribe suggested us coming down and being a part of that. So we did a couple of shows down in some of the hot zones and then on Sunday got to play the big stage, it was phenomenal - it was a great experience. But more than anything a great opportunity to share God's love."

TC: Isn't it slightly schizophrenic in that one moment you'd be playing to 25,000 people and in the next moment you could be ministering in a school to 20?

MR PRINCE: "That is what it's all about! You know we are ready to go wherever God sends us. We're not prima donnas or anything of that nature. If God, tomorrow, was to say drop all of this and go sweep the streets, then that's where we'd be. It'd be hard, yeah - but we'd do it! It can seem a bit odd, but you gotta go where God sends you, and it's all good."

TC: Tell me a bit about Cypher Studios. Who wants to pick up on that?

NAVIGATOR DANGEROUS): "Cypher Studios, again it's a long time in the making. Something that's really been part of 29th Chapter from the beginning is the production and that kind of stuff, which obviously I've been involved with. It's really been a part of the ministry and it's not just a beat, just for lyrics and that kind of stuff. It's really an expression of the Gospel in it's own way, I really believe that. Recently, at Soul Survivor I heard a story of a young girl who wasn't a Christian and she bought the album at the end of a concert, she borrowed £10 off a youth leader and bought the album. She went away and listened to the whole album at night on her own in her tent on a little CD player and at the end there's a little sinner's prayer and she gave her life to Christ right there and then. She was playing it to her youth group. For me really that was key, there's a lot of good Christian music around, but I think there is a lacking in Christian music that actually really speaks the truth in its entirety and in its plainness. I really think that was a blessing that that girl could just listen to that album without any other person even talking to her but she could hear the Gospel that clearly. So really that's part of what we want to do with Cypher Studios, and also we want to equip other young people with a similar heart, a similar mindset. There's so much talent out there - we know 'cos we were there, kind of out there on the streets rapping on our own with nobody really backing us. So we want to be that for those people that have that heart and that have that character. We really believe that God's going to take this onto a big level, you know and it's not just for our own glory. It's 'cos we want to see the Kingdom of God expand and it's all part of the 29th Chapter vision."

MR PRINCE: Yeah, I guess for us originally as Set Apart and then as Acts 29 for several years we had a real vision and a heart to rap and to do stuff for God and we were rapping over other people's beats. You know we were scraping around for any instrumentals that we could find to rap something over and we met a lot of producers, a lot of people with facilities and stuff in that time and, without being bad, nobody ever helped us out, nobody ever gave us the opening, the opportunity to get in and record something. Part of our vision as the 29th Chapter is really to release others into ministry. I know that just from my sphere of people that I know in London that there are a lot of ministers out there that don't have an opening in that respect, in terms of getting their music out, in terms of recording stuff and so part of our vision as the 29th Chapter is to release others into ministry and to release others into music. So we've developed Cypher Studios, it's a full recording production facility with everything that you'd need to get a CD from the concept, from the back of your mind onto a CD and out onto the streets or whatever you want to do with it. So what we want to do is to invite other artists to come in, come and work with us, come and work with some of our production team to get their ideas on CD and out there, you know. More than just on the paper and pads, actually get the stuff out there. So we've produced this facility and - it's open, it's an open door!"

TC: Tell me about the production dynamic of putting hip-hop together because, I've often wondered this, does the track come before the rap or does the rap come before the track?

DANGEROUS: "I don't think there's a set rule to be honest with you. Sometimes there's been times where I've produced a beat or produced a track and just purely from the beat the inspiration comes to write things and other times a concept will come or lyrics will come from any one of us in the crew and then we'll need a beat to go under it. So, with the lyrics in mind we'll produce underneath it. So there's not really a hard and fast rule for it. I think each and every track, like James was saying, on the album each and every track is really its own thing and that goes for the production as well. It's quite deliberate in the mood that we try and create with the track, we'll really try and suit the lyrical content."