Paul Calvert spoke with archaeologist Dr Oren Gutfeld, from the Hebrew University in Jerusalem.

Dr Gutfeld: That is correct. In general, in research, we know about 11 caves where scrolls were found. Now we know for sure that there were more than 11 caves. First of all we cannot be sure from where the other scrolls came, since we cannot rely on the Bedouins information, or even Kando, but now for sure we know that from this cave more scrolls were stolen.

Paul: Is there a value to what you have been finding?

Dr Gutfeld: Oh absolutely, but we don't care about the monetary value, we care only about the science; the information, data, archaeological remains and what more we can learn from this stuff. First of all, after 60 years we have much better technology to screen the fragments. Second to have a better analysis of the organic finds, what kind of seeds, from which species and from what was the cloth made etc.

Paul: Is there a lot of information that you wouldn't have known before?

Dr Gutfeld: That's correct. Sixty years ago they didn't analyse the bones. We have plenty of bones inside the cave, so we can know the diet of the people who lived there for example. We found many seeds of dates, which means the people in the cave in the desert, in general liked to eat dates, because it's very rich with sugars for example.

Paul: Is it very expensive to do an excavation like this?

Dr Gutfeld: Yes, unfortunately it's expensive. We need the manpower, insurances of course, to reach to the caves, but most of the money and you will be surprised to hear this, is after the excavation. The finds processing, one test for example, is very expensive. To clean and to take care of the leathers, it's an expensive process, but I hope I will be able to raise the money for that.

Paul: It's very exciting for the State of Israel to be finding more stuff like this isn't it?

Dr Gutfeld: Yes that is correct and we have the full support of the Israel Antiquities Authority and the conservation scroll lab of the Israel Antiquities Authority who helps a lot.

Paul: How long have you been working at the site?

Dr Gutfeld: We planned to dig for two weeks and we stayed for a month. We plan to return to the area to take a survey, in the area of the cave. We will also look for more caves that we intend to dig in the future.

Paul: As an archaeologist it must be really exiting to find this twelfth cave?

Dr Gutfeld: That's correct. It's not the first time that I am finding something very significant, but regarding history and you know we are talking about scrolls and cave and Qumran, yes it probably is.

Paul: What will happen to the finds that you have found so far?

Dr Gutfeld: Now we are starting to work on the publication and the finds processing, which means we are doing the restoration of the jars, cleaning the cloth, taking analysis of the leather and give it to the experts to write their articles and chapters for the final report.

Paul: When were the original Dead Sea Scrolls discovered and tell us a little bit more of the story of them?

Dr Gutfeld: Muhammad el Dib found the first scroll in 1947 in cave number one. He found seven scrolls and among them was Josiah 1st and Josiah 2nd, Pesach, Habakkuk and others. That was just the beginning of almost a decade of scroll searching, also by the Bedouins and also by the archaeologists.

The first work was on the caves on the cliffs above Qumran, where scrolls were found in almost all the 11 caves numbered one to 11. Further to this, the Bedouins worked all over and also surveys were made of more than 270 caves on the cliffs west to Qumran.

In general more than 600 literature books were found with more than 15,000 fragments of scrolls. Most of them are from the Bible, except of the scroll of Esther, which is very interesting, why the scroll of Esther is not there. The outer books, some of them are new books that we didn't know and some of them are sectarian scrolls, like scrolls that go with the Essenes that some scholars believe lived in Qumran and wrote the scrolls. Some of the scrolls are very unique, like the copper scroll.

Paul: Have you always been interested in the Dead Sea Scrolls?

Dr Gutfeld: Yes, but less in the scrolls and more in the archaeology around the scrolls. Even if I find a scroll and I hope I will, I'm not an expert in the literature, the Bible and epigraphy. I am more interested about the material culture around it, when it was hidden, why, who it was written by, but less on the scroll themselves.

Paul: So is now the hunt on for cave number 13 before the Bedouins get there?

Dr Gutfeld: I am not sure before the Bedouins. They were probably there, but yes we intend to go to another cave. You know when the Bedouins are conducting illegal excavation, they are just looking for the scrolls and they leave everything else behind them. Even the early archaeologists didn't sift most of the caves that they surveyed. So I think we should go back and find what I am calling a juicy cave and to sift everything and find more of these dates, or even cloths stripes.

Paul: You have been an archaeologist for many years. What other things have you found?

Dr Gutfeld: I've been practicing archaeology for more than 25 years now. I remember in 1998 in Tiberius, on a salvage exploration, I found the biggest Islamic metal hoard in the world. It was hidden in storage jars. Everything you can think, made of copper, alloy, bronze or brass, I found over there. It was very interesting, because in the third and the smallest storage jars, I found more than 250kg of metal waste. Probably the metal blacksmith meant to melt and to prepare new artefacts. In between the metal waste, I found 51 coins. They were very rare coins named anonymous follis. Anonymous because instead of the emperor, someone is familiar, there's anonymous figure and follis is the value of the coin on the reverse of it, which means those are very rare coins. They were before the end of the first millennium and I found it before the end of the second millennium.

The story goes that one day at the beginning of the year 2000, I received an envelope in Italian with the symbol of the Vatican, and you know the keys of St Peter. I was invited to have an audition before the Pope John Paul the 2nd. So I went to the Vatican and I was sitting next to him for two hours on Ash Wednesday mass in St Peter's Square. Later on there was an audition. It was very exciting and I showed him the coins and the story behind the finds.

Paul: What is your hope for the future?

Dr Gutfeld: I hope to return to the Dead Sea. The sooner the better, to continue the survey to find another juicy cave and to conduct an excavation.

I hope we will meet again and I will tell you about the new finds from the new cave.