Jonathan Bellamy spoke with Steve Uppal

Steve Uppal

Steve Uppal is the Senior Leader of All Nations Christian Centre in Wolverhampton. He has a passion for God's word coupled with a love for God's people. He has been called to speak to many people in many nations and his book Rousing the Warriors has helped Churches rise up and boldly advance the Kingdom of God. Jonathan Bellamy spent time chatting with him about what it will take to see a Church roused to be warriors.

Jonathan: Tell us a little bit of the background to Rousing The Warriors and specifically what is the trumpet call message that you're trying to make for today's church?

Steve: I actually spoke the message of the book for about ten years before I wrote the book. The background came from just travelling around a lot of churches, preaching, ministering, seeing people's lives; that people actually lived in maintenance rather than a pro-active advancement, doing what we can just to survive every single day. Probably back in 1999 or 2000, I had a vision during a worship service in a church and this is the trumpet call and this encompasses the message and becomes the first chapter of the book; though much of the book I've been speaking before then. In this vision I saw many Christians on a field, a huge field. They were from all different backgrounds; some were busy with their hands raised worshipping God; others were involved in Christian service; some were talking with each other; some were just enjoying worship and God's presence and some were arguing with each other. I realised - the thing that struck me, everybody was doing what they wanted to be doing. Then all of a sudden my attention went up on to a hillside, where there was an angel standing and the angel blew a trumpet. As the angel blew this trumpet, it was calling the people to attention; not everyone, but many of the people responded to the trumpet sound from this angel. I felt the Lord clearly speak to me that day - I mean it's a lot more in depth than that, that's a quick synopsis of it - and challenge me that it's time to wake up the church to become the powerful force that God has called it to be; to move out of maintaining and holding ground, to advancing and taking ground. So that's really the push of the first chapter of the book. Then the rest of it probably is the how; how do we do that, how do we become a generation that no longer just holds ground, because many are just struggling to hold ground; I've got enough bills to pay and enough demands on my time and enough challenges - I don't need anybody telling me to do anything else. The truth is that as long as I stay in survival, it becomes very difficult even to survive, but when I change my mindset to advance, the things that I struggled to maintain somehow get done and I get to do more stuff and become a lot more fruitful in what God has called me to do.

Jonathan: Why do you think we've not been that pro-active or advanced in our mindsets in the church? Arguably we've been fairly comfortable perhaps for decades.

Steve: I think we have and I think perhaps looking at history, the church goes through seasons as we do in our lives, marriages and jobs, where we become comfortable. I suppose for us in the West we have many of our needs met; though most listeners today, most people in my Church wouldn't think they're wealthy or wouldn't think they're well-off. In truth we probably are compared to a lot of the world. So people tend to live for the temporary, or the Bible calls it the temporal, rather than the eternal. We're easily awed by what this world has to offer. It's almost like when that happens we fall into a stupor or a sleep and we really aren't aware of what's happening spiritually. There's a scripture in I think its 1Chronicles 12:32, and it says 'the men of Issachar, which was a tribe, they knew what time it was and what Israel should do. So they were a people that understood timings and seasons and then what people should do in those particular timings and seasons. I suppose sadly a lot of people in our country today are very busy, we've got to pay our bills, we've got to pay the mortgage, we're going to have some relax and down time and in the midst of it, we can actually let 5 years pass - ten years pass, and we don't realise what time we're in and what's really happening spiritually, because we're so engrossed in temporal things. I suppose the message Rousing The Warriors, it's really about - let's wake up from the temporal and really see what's happening and maybe reveal dark things in our lives to be removed so light can shine in and the Holy Spirit can help us understand that we were born for purpose and for destiny that's far bigger than the temporal material things that are around us.

Jonathan: It's interesting you mention waking up the Church and that sense of an angel blowing a trumpet like a trumpet call. Do you have any sense of how you think that trumpet call will actually happen? I mean is it arguably through persecution, is it through challenge, and is it through some things like the recession that gets the heart of us as Christians?

Steve: I think all of those things will help us to wake up. But sometimes we can go through all of those things and still be insensitive. The Lord actually spoke to me when I had that vision and said that he's called me as one of many, so I'm not an elitist here thinking it's only me; there's many who've been called to blow the trumpet. My way of blowing that trumpet is probably two-fold; by the way that I live and secondly by preaching this message through the preaching by voice and preaching through print; so the book. One of the reasons that I've got it into print; it's in seven different languages across the world; is to say, hey this is my little seed to try and help the church awaken to what God wants her to do. I suppose God does get our attention through the recession; He gets our attention when we get into trouble; when we suffer; but sadly in those times we can still remain quite dull. I suppose I would encourage everyone to be in the place where we're sensitive to what's really going on around us. This isn't in the book, but two things I've been speaking recently is that we must realise that we are here primarily for God's glory and secondly that we must live with the supremacy of Jesus in our lives. They're very basic messages that I think are in the Westminster catechism and the first one is, what's the chief end of man? Why do I exist, why am I here? Make money, have children, be married? Actually the answer is you're here to bring glory to God by the way that you live and to enjoy Him forever. There's nothing greater than that. It sounds quite religious and some people don't always get it straightaway, but as humans we were created to be in awe of something really big, or somebody really big, who's God. When we're not in awe of Him and enjoying Him, and recognising Christ is supreme, then we find other things to awe us. So I read of people base-jumping off buildings, or sexual perversion, multiple partners, orgies, wife swapping, I mean crazy stuff that goes on; but really the truth is what people are looking for is something to awe them, something magnificent and huge. I was recently in Capetown and there's great mountains; you've got Table Mountain, you've got the seas; you've got these twelve peaks they're called the apostles and they are phenomenal and I'm in awe of them - I was created for awe - but I still need something bigger than that and that's God.

Jonathan: A lot of the users and listeners to Cross Rhythms are young people. What's your take on where the current UK youth generation is at and what would you like them to grab out of your book?

Steve: I think there's probably a real mixture. There's obviously many cultures within a youth culture; probably more so than ever and with the different genres of music and different hobbies and interests that people have and with the internet coming. I think it's very mixed. My hope is and I think I'm seeing this in some, that people are hungry for reality and truth. Some would say to me that truth has become subjective, so people only believe what they want to believe and it's no longer just that's true and that's it. But I think there is a generation that want to rise and pay a price for a higher call. Give their lives to something that's real. I also see a generation that want true deep intimate relationships, friendships that really matter and not superficial or fake, which sometimes they have been in churches; but a place where they can be true community and I can lay my life down now for something with friends. I suppose I'm talking from some experience of people around me at the moment, where we probably hold in high value just the relationship we have with each other; the ability to speak honestly and openly. Probably the biggest thing I desire is to make a difference in our world because Christ lives in us. That we don't have to sell out just for a nine 'til five and be in the same rat race; but we can actually do something that makes a difference in the light of eternity. So whether I live thirty years or eighty years that my life really counted: and that I did something that lived on beyond me. I was recently in a church praying and I'm stood in front of a young girl and just by the sense of God telling me, I really felt that - I'd prayed for about a hundred people that night, but when I got to her I felt the Lord say - she's one of my special ones; she's already dug a well; she's already learnt to pray; she's already willing to sacrifice and she was just weak. I felt there was such a stature in her as a young girl that it humbled me as the man who had come in to preach and pray for her. I felt the Lord say that there is a whole generation of these rising up, who are finding God in the secret place and they've found something that's just awesome for them and they're willing to give all of their years to serve this God in a special way. So I think that's happening and there's a revival of that, a renewal of that. It's some of the ancient roadways; I think Isaiah 58 says that your people will rebuild the ancient ruins; raise up the age-old foundations. I see a movement within young people and young ministers who are in their twenties, maybe early thirties who are not so fussed about just being contemporary or trendy, but want the power of God in their lives and they're seeing it happen; blind eyes open, deaf ears open, people coming out of wheelchairs; I mean just drug addicts getting free. People are consumed with wanting to make a difference, so that God may be glorified. So I think that is happening; I'm beginning to see and have hope for it.

Jonathan: Now you mentioned that young girl and how she'd dug deep into prayer already in her life. Describe for me a spiritual warrior in terms of character and attributes that needs to be at the foundation if someone truly wants to be effective for Jesus Christ?

Steve: I think number one they have to have a life that is totally surrendered to Christ; to abandonment; I'll do anything you want, I'll go anywhere you want, I'll pay any price. I think that's a journey. But they start that journey as we started, that God's really gracious to us; He helps us along over the months and years, but surrender is key. The Lordship of Jesus is key; that we say, hey you're the one I'm following, not my own desires, not what this world wants, but what you want. Then the book - I talk about attributes like focus, like Paul says, 'I have this one thing before me, pressing on to take a hold of Christ'. He hasn't got ten things he's doing; there's one thing he's doing. Jesus says I only do what I see my Father do, focused about what God called Him to do. I think sometimes in our generation it's easy to do or try and do ten things and it's one of the tactics of the enemy to get us distracted. But focus is really important. I think boldness is really important; rather than being timid, to be bold. Not aggressive in the wrong sense; not rude, but bold in the sense of fearless, adventurous, willing to face adventure and danger; overstepping the usual bounds and conventional rules. The Bible says that in Proverbs 28:1 that the righteous are as bold as the lion. They're not timid but they've overcome fear because Christ's in them. There's a scripture in Acts 4:13 that says, when they saw the boldness of Peter and John they realised that these men had been with Jesus. I guess that's where real true pure boldness comes from; people who've been with God and when they walk about their daily business, they overflow that boldness. There are many others like tenacity, determination, stubbornness, perseverance; but I won't go into all of them, because it covers two chapters in the book. They're just some of those things that I think will mark out this new generation of warriors that God is raising.

Jonathan: You also mention - in fact in two chapters - building up your inner man, which is really about bog standard disciplines really aren't they for walking a natural spiritual life. Can you unpack that briefly?

Steve: Sometimes today - and I meet people like this - that have given their life to Christ and think everything is going to be ok. The truth is, just like if I want to be fit physically, I personally swim, I do a bit of weights; it's really hard work to keep fit. I eat right. Spiritually it's exactly the same, in fact Paul said to Timothy, physical exercise is of some value, but spiritual exercise holds value for both of this life and the life to come. He likened spiritual disciplines to physical exercise. So I take that and unpack it a little bit that we're going to have a hunger for God and we can actually grow our hunger for God. We need to know God's word intimately. All of those are disciplines we live in. We need to learn to pray. We have to be people who fast. I'm finding more and more - I've just come from Capetown last week and preached this a week last Sunday - so many young people committed themselves straightaway to a seven day fast - to Daniel fasting. We'd just finished a twenty one day fast and almost everywhere I'm turning, I'm finding people, it's the Holy Spirit doing it, but people are willing to pay a price to have power in their lives from God. There isn't a short cut. Nobody can lay hands on you and give it to you; you've got to decide to walk in these things. There's a quote by a man called Smith Wigglesworth, who was alive you know sixty years ago; he was a short man from Bradford, but very powerful in the things of God. It's documented he raised over thirteen people from the dead and he said this, 'I'm a thousand times bigger on the inside than I am on the outside.' It got me really thinking a few years ago, if I want to be big on the inside, it's these spiritual disciplines that are going to help me do that. So I live clean, I live holy; I don't allow junking. I feed on God's word. I use my i-phone with messages on there and podcasting stuff that's gonna help me. Just having the lifestyle, just like I would for physical fitness and endurance - for spiritual fitness and endurance as well.

Jonathan: It's great advice Steve. Final question for you. How hopeful are you of seeing this warrior generation truly emerging in the UK, in our day and age and what should we be looking out for?

Steve: I suppose I'm extremely hopeful, but I'm also quite sober about this. I think there's urgency. We can't just rest on our laurels. We must rise up; we must awaken people to what God is saying right now and I feel urgency about that. So I'm in the process of writing another book called Awaken, because I think the church needs to be awakened. So although I'm hopeful, I also believe we need to pray more and ask God to do this. I'm finding more and more people doing that. I suppose the signs are, I'm meeting more and more people who speak in the same kind of language, who are frustrated with the - I call it the 'fluff' of church. The kinda stuff that doesn't satisfy, doesn't meet needs; it's a shallow plastic smile. We put band aids or plasters on deep gashes, but people want a real move of God and they're beginning to pay the price for that. I'm seeing that in many little ways all over our nation.

Jonathan: What should we be looking out for?

Steve: I guess to see this awakening; more people talking this language; more people praying; more national initiatives to pray; a greater hunger for holiness; I think some of your listeners and website users will be feeling these things, who would have felt these things. The Holy Spirit will have been speaking to them. Some of them have heard me say about fasting and they've been thinking about it. These are all signs for me. It's rare that I'm preaching as a guest speaker and the whole Church committed themselves; a Church of about eight hundred, all committed themselves as a church to a seven day fast. Now I didn't tell them to do it; but I see that as a sign again of what God's doing. We recently called a twenty one day fast, that we finished about two weeks ago and all of a sudden we've got nearly a hundred people every week in prayer and who've committed themselves to pray and fast. Two years ago that wasn't happening. So for me these are signs that God is stirring people towards Himself. That could be repeated up and down our nation at the moment. I'm hearing more and more stories of people pressing into God in that way; so, that's what I'd look for.

Jonathan: You mentioned the importance of praying. I wonder whether you'd end in just praying for the rousing of the warriors.

Steve: Yeah. Father I thank you for this opportunity to talk to listeners and website users about what you are doing and I pray that you'd stir hearts. Awaken people. Some of them know you, some don't know you; but I thank you that there is life in Christ and we find our purpose in Him. I pray that young and old would begin to get stirred, that they have an eternal destiny of significance and of satisfaction in God and the shallowness and emptiness we live with can be dealt with in Christ. I pray that through this very simple interview, you would use it to help people find you and turn their hearts towards you. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen

You can buy Steve's book Rousing the Warriors from Cross Rhythms Direct.