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radioPaul Calvert spoke with Canon Andrew White
For most of his ministry Canon Andrew White has been involved in reconciliation and he is currently Vicar of St George's Church in Baghdad. Until he left for Baghdad in 2005 Andrew was Director of the International Centre for Reconciliation in Coventry. The ICR is the centre of a network of over 250 'Cross of Nails' centres around the world, particularly in the USA and Germany, which serve the cause of reconciliation. He is also the author of a number of books including Father Forgive and Faith Under Fire. Currently in Israel and not allowed back into Iraq because of the danger posed to him, Paul Calvert got the chance to spend some time with him.
Paul: You are in Israel at the moment, why are you here at this time?
Andrew: I am here for two reasons. First of all I have been very involved in work in reconciliation in Israel and Palestine a lot longer than even my involvement in Baghdad. Secondly, I am here because they won't let me go back to Iraq, so I have come to Israel and I love it.
Paul: Are they not letting you back into Iraq because of the situation with ISIS?
Andrew: The situation is so dangerous and they see me as a very high profile Brit and particularly at risk.
Paul: You are the Vicar of St George's Church in Baghdad, what is the situation like there for the members of the congregation?
Andrew: In Baghdad things are fairly stable, relatively speaking. Outside of Baghdad things are so dangerous and Baghdad is very tender and very frail at the moment. People are very concerned about everything that is happening in Iraq generally. The Christians, many had fled Baghdad because they thought Baghdad was too dangerous, so they fled back to their homeland of Nineveh and Mosul and now they have all been ousted from there by ISIS and they are all living with nothing. Many of them are sleeping in churches, halls, schools or in people's homes you will find five or six families. Things are very very bad.
Paul: As a vicar it must be very hard for you not being able to go back to Iraq. You know a lot of these people and you have a heart connection with them, so it must be very difficult.
Andrew: It is difficult, but any vicar who does a good job has to ensure that everything can survive without them and our place can survive without me. I have 135 staff and they are running everything and they are providing food and relief for everybody and so it's all going fine without me.
Paul: Is there a lot of fear and uncertainty there at the moment and what sort of horrors are happening?
Andrew: If I told you what was happening I would start crying. One of the men of the church phoned me the other day and he said "Abuna (Father), ISIS came to me and they said, "You have got to follow Mohammad otherwise I will kill all your children". I said to them, "I will follow Mohammad". He said, "Does that mean Jesus won't love me anymore?" I said, "No, Jesus will always love you, you are always his and he is always yours" and then the next day I heard that ISIS had turned up to a family with children and they didn't ask the father now if he believed in Mohammad, they said to the children, "Will you believe in Mohammad? Otherwise you will be dead" and the children said, "We have always loved Jesus, we will never stop loving Jesus" and they held hands and they said, "We belong to Jesus, he is ours and we are his" and they shot them all dead. That was three weeks ago.
Paul: Why do you work in Baghdad? After all your life is in danger and Wikipedia says that you have had as many 35 Iraqi bodyguards? Why do you do it?
Andrew: I've never read that. Wikipedia says that? Yeah, I do usually when I am there. I have 35 soldiers caring for me. Why do I do it? Because God has sent me there. I am there because God has sent me there and I love my people. I love them so much. My people are the ones that I love, I love them so much, and I cannot express my love enough to my people.
Paul: You are the President of the Foundation for Relief and Reconciliation in the Middle East, how do you bring reconciliation to an area like Iraq, which has seen such horrific crimes?
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Andrew always manages to convey that it is only the Muslims, or only the Arabs, who need to see the light and to repent; but it is the Israelis who have their foot on the throat of the Palestinians and who every day take their land, take their water, take their dignity, take their hope and take their lives. Andrew knows this, but he won't say it because he doesn't want to offend his Israeli friends. And that does not make him a force for reconciliation. There is no shalom without justice.