Cross Rhythms talked with author Dr Patrick Sookhdeo about his new book

See the difficulty is that Islam is really a closed circle; you can live within it, you can have freedoms within it, but once you leave the circle you lose your identity, your family, your belongings. And so long as that circle remains closed, it's very very difficult for Muslims to countenance leaving.

But there's a further difficulty. There are some Muslim countries which actually specify the death penalty. Saudi Arabia is a classical illustration of this. You become a Christian today in Saudi, you are beheaded. The Iranian government have now looked at putting a death penalty, the apostasy law, within their constitution. So what you have got is a situation where governments are now legislating for a death penalty. You take the Maldives. There are lots of people who love to go on holiday to the Maldives. Yet the government of Maldives have changed their constitution, and have made anyone who leaves Islam effectively a person without any rights - human rights, political rights, civic rights. Everything has been stripped away from them.

So the real difficulty in becoming a Christian, which I think many in Britain do not realise, is that it's not simply taking step of faith; it actually means that society, that country, as well as that family are cutting you adrift. Now you can face it with your family, but what happens when the state not only disowns you but removes all rights from you, and what happens when it says you're going to die. This is why we want that law to be removed, and people should be given the freedom to exercise their conscience. And I think Islam knows fully well - Muslim leaders - that if that right was given, I don't think they would be able to hold their members back. I think many will want to leave.

Cross Rhythms: The question from a UK point of view is, how strong is an apostasy law within the culture of the UK. Occasionally we hear of Muslim communities in the UK who are able to exercise their own Shari'a law courts to deal with Muslim community issues. First of all, do you think that's a good idea and secondly do you think there is a concern that there will be increasing empowerment to those law courts to be able to bring through other aspects of Shari'a law which might also include the apostasy law?

Dr Sookhdeo: The Muslim community in Britain, and the majority comes from the Indian sub continent in particular Pakistan, actually reflects the very ethos of the countries from which they come from. And the more the Muslim communities develop into their own self-sustaining communities, the more they reflect Pakistan rather than Great Britain. Now of course there are some Muslims who are moving towards modernity and embracing the privatisation of religion as well as western values. But many of them are finding their identity in their historic culture as well as in Islam itself. Now when that happens then the apostasy law arises to the surface.

With the British government effectively acknowledging Shari'a and allowing Muslims to have aspects of their law, which can be binding in civil law; and here I'm thinking of the agreements which have been made whereby Muslim communities can address certain matters from the basis of Shari'a; I believe that this indeed will be problematic.

There can only be one law in any land, and our law is based on Common Law, which allows freedom for every given individual. The problem with having Shari'a being practiced in the UK and the apostasy law is this: Muslims will say, well we are not asking for the death penalty; we are not asking for cutting off of arms and legs; we just want the aspects of divorce, laws of inheritance etc. But you see the apostasy law crosses two dimensions. One is the penal which says death penalty; the other are disabilities for example divorce and loss of inheritance. So if the British government says we allow Muslim Shari'a courts to determine issues such as this, then the courts can well say under Shari'a "a man has become a Christian so under Shari'a his wife must divorce him. He cannot have the custody of his children, and he must be cut off from his inheritance".

Is a British court going to find that acceptable? And this is why people like myself argue very strongly that no aspect of Shari'a can be allowed to exist within the UK, and we would go so far as to say that the government is essentially wrong in allowing these aspects of Shari'a to come and to be practiced within the UK.

Cross Rhythms: Now this book that you have written is called Freedom To Believe: Challenging Islam's Apostasy Law. In challenging this worldview what action would you like to be seen taken by world authorities, either within the Muslim or non-Muslim parts. Do you think there is anything that should be happening?

Dr Sookhdeo: Yes, I believe there is much. For the Muslim communities I know some of their leaders are increasingly unhappy with the apostasy law. They should have the courage of their convictions and state publicly that this law is no longer applicable in the twenty first century; and for them to reject it. What they can say is punishment belongs to God, and the apostate will be dealt with by God as He sees fit when they die. But here on earth, no man, community or state can exercise the death penalty or great disabilities for a person who actually leaves their religion - the religion of Islam. Now I have some Muslim friends and leaders who have taken that stance and I believe that increasingly the British Muslim community and the international Muslim community must take such a stance.

Secondly, I call upon the church and church leaders, and Christian leaders. Sadly, mainstream denominational leaders have fought shy of this issue. Whilst they mouth issues of global warming and platitudes about human rights, when it comes to religious freedom, and the right of a convert to have the freedom to change their religion, they are remarkably silent, because they do not want to upset the Muslim communities. And at this point, the freedoms of Muslim converts, or the rights of Muslims to change their religion are being sacrificed on the altar of interfaith dialogical relations.

We come now to the third area which are governments, and in particular western governments, like our own British government. I think the government must now recognise that the apostasy law exists, and it must work to change this. Now my understanding is that members of the cabinet, in particular the foreign secretary, are strongly opposed to the apostasy law; and I applaud him and other elements of the government for their stance in this. But I think that must now lead out to an engagement with Muslim governments and the Muslim world, to say it's time that you now changed this law. This is important because, for example, if a Muslim was to become a Christian in Britain today, and say he was an Iranian and a refugee, would he be sent back to Iran knowing that he will be killed? Or what happens if he is an Afghan? The position in Afghanistan is that the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, founded on Islamic legal principles, calls for the death penalty for the convert. So are we going to send an Afghan convert back to their country to be killed? So it's important that government addresses this issue, and then says to the judiciary "when you come to look at issues of freedom of choice and religion, and converts of Islam, recognise the context and recognise what is likely to happen to them".

Cross Rhythms: Dr Sookhdeo thank you very much. If people want to find out more about the Baranabas Fund, do you have a website that people can go to?

Dr Sookhdeo: Yes, please do, www.barnabasfund.org Please can you also sign our petition? We want to present our petition to the British government at the end of April. That petition calls for the end of the apostasy law, and we hope and pray that many will sign it. Furthermore, if there are Christians out there, please pray that this law will end and that the converts will be cared for. And if you want to read further on the nature of this law, then please get a copy of my book.

You can buy Dr Patrick Sookhdeo's book 'Freedom To Believe: Challenging Islam's Apostasy Law' from Cross Rhythms Direct for £6.64.